Curse

garethporlest18 · Nov 13, 2006, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Oh, I'm sure there's some pretty difficult missions and quests coming up. Then again, I'd expect there to be toward the end of any game, ya know? Hehe, but yeah, so far, Battle for Turai's Procession is about the hardest thing I've seen, be it quest or mission.

Should remind you about the 28 Margonites you end up facing in a Vabbi masters quest. That was great, AoE Smite is definately ftw.

Hengis · Nov 13, 2006, 10:58 AM // 10:58

I have to say that I found the missions in Nightfall to be interesting, refreshing, and generally nicely balanced between being achievable and being tough.

You do need to think about what heros to take and what skills to give them, and on a couple of occasions I played my heros as only their secondary profession (e.g. using a monk as a conditions ranger and then taking hench monks)

I only had trouble with one mission and henched/heroed my way to the Vortex scoring Masters in every mission in two or three tries.

You also do have to watch how heros use skills and manually take control sometimes (e.g. had to do this to stop Olias's minions killing Shiro before I had summoned all the gods)

On the whole though I really enjoyed this game. I achieved both Grandmaster Cartograper and Protector of Elona in two weeks, which is faster than I got both titles in Factions, and a LOT faster than it took me in Prophecy, which took months!

Braggi · Nov 13, 2006, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makkert

as previous posters already proved, the answer is simply 'no'.

its not too hard. its harder then Factions probably. its harder then most of Prophecies (remember how many failed at THK at first?). It just takes a bit of knowledge and a bit of thinking how to beat the missions.
I 'heroway-ed' 90% of the missions.

No one proved anything.

(Btw Factions design was crap, I found the decission to simply double boss damage lazy design and unfair.) If I revisit Prophecies missions now, the challenge isn't half as big as it was first time. Not only because now I know the mission, but I also have tons of skills and builds to choose from. Thirsty River with a lvl 17 toon w/o elite skills is completely different to Thirsty River with lvl 20 and a score of potential builds.

As you're a player of the first hour you just prove that for you it is easy. Of cause you can heroway it 90% - you have premade class builds ready for your heros, skills unlocked long ago. But a new and maybe Nightfall-only player hasn't.

If you look at SoF founding folklore

, everyone there was in the same boat. Those who found themselfes learned together. No more. Accomplished players will breeze through it with guildies or hero-hench. The number of available players for a PUG is just way down compared to the "old times". So for a new player the barriers of entry are higher indeed.

Guildmaster Cain · Nov 13, 2006, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Zomg... I did that mission at Master level. This means the endboss is HUGELY overpowered, killing any fullgrown lvl 20 in 1 hit.

First try, targeting the Droughtlings before the Drought himself, all henchies (and me) except for the prot hero died. I made her run away and rebirth us all. Good thing there was a Hero ranger interrupter running around.
Second try: I didnt kill the Droughtlings yet, since we were massacred in 5 secs, but this time I let my ranger interrupter target the Drought and interrupt it to hell. 10 secs later the Drought was dead without us getting hit at all... ^^

Grolubao · Nov 13, 2006, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Gates of Madness really sucks! I've already tried this mission 16 times without success. Shiro's impossible odds are just too much

Rusty Deth · Nov 13, 2006, 12:40 PM // 12:40

I did Thirsty River at level 15 with my Warrior, no elites needed. In fact everyone else was low level as well. That Mission is mostly based on arrgo control rather than skills.

THK I beat the first time I ever did it...and it was bugged. We went out in a group of 4 to go kill the rest of the enemies since they never triggered to head for the fort.

As for Shiro's Impossible Odds...I WANT TO CAP THAT SKILL!! lol Anyways Shiro is still a sucker for SS. He kept going after Koss...then the minions that came form Koss...then Koss ...then minions...rinse and repeat with SS.

Finally I got so sick of his health being so low and not dying my Dervish made a mad dash to finish him off. He fell face first.

The Missing Monk · Nov 13, 2006, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Hmm, to be honest I did had much trouble during that mission because as said before If you stand beneath the ramp the archers can't hit you and you just lure the boss to you, atleast that's how I did it with henchies

undeadgun · Nov 13, 2006, 02:38 PM // 14:38

hey have u every try to cap the elite from a Death Magic Necro boss out desolution?? he deals 254 dmg from one Deathly Swurm, i remember that when i tried to cap him, it was just insane...........
Over 6 times of the spell that deals dmg which supposed to do, it is just wayyy too high, i can afford 3 times(faction bosses) but not f ing 6 times!

CougarTheTall · Nov 13, 2006, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Yeah, I have to agree with the original poster, the latter stages of Nightfall are just stupid hard. Not challenging hard, just ridiculas, stupid and idiotically hard. A group of 8 lvl 20's against 30 lvl 28's is just flat out STUPID. I've lost all intrest in Nightfall, I personally think the campaign is shit. No one wants to join groups anymore because they have their precious hero's and know the game inside and out because they have 24/7 to play this game. The rest of us are just screwed.

I just spent 45 minutes trying to do the first primary quest in the vortex and couldn't even get out of the gate, not to mention the res shrine is right in the middle of the battle so as soon as you are wiped, you get wiped again, and again and again and again. It's just retarded. I understand there is a difference between challenging and impossible, but this shit is not challenging, it's impossible. I don't have the luxury of a guild full of Koreans that can destroy an entire continent of monsters in 10 seconds, I'm usually alone, because like I said, hero's ruined teamwork.

Personally, I'm done with Nightfall. I think it ruined the series and I'm going back to Cantha and Prophocies..........oh wait, there isn't anyone there anymore. GG ANet. Yet another game ruined by the developers. File Anet in the same drawer as EA under idiot developers that don't give a shit about casual players.

gabrial heart · Nov 13, 2006, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty Deth

I did Thirsty River at level 15 with my Warrior, no elites needed. In fact everyone else was low level as well. That Mission is mostly based on arrgo control rather than skills.

THK I beat the first time I ever did it...and it was bugged. We went out in a group of 4 to go kill the rest of the enemies since they never triggered to head for the fort.

As for Shiro's Impossible Odds...I WANT TO CAP THAT SKILL!! lol Anyways Shiro is still a sucker for SS. He kept going after Koss...then the minions that came form Koss...then Koss ...then minions...rinse and repeat with SS.

I think the AI update changed the enemy AI going for the heavy targets, not sure when you beat it, but shiro won't stay on a tank anymore.

As for the OP, I would agree, but most of the core skills are there to beat this game pretty readily. I would also agree that factions had some better difficulty leveled missions. Prophecies too, had some pretty difficult to master (bonus) missions. As far as the overall games combined I really haven't found NF to be harder then any of the other campaigns, but in general NF is lacking some of the better, more well established skills that newer players just don't have access to. There is also the new players that spread out attribute points across 3-4 sets of attributes that make even the best planned builds worthless. This was the same for all 3 campaigns, not knowing how to set-up and utilize a build is going to make any game a lot harder. I remember first starting in proph with a necro running a blood, death, healing and prot build thinking the more spread out my limited skills, the easier the game would be. But, no one can be a one man army in these games and be successful everywhere. Best solution for some of the newer players is keep your skills and points focused and allow your heros/hench/pugs/friends to fill in the areas that your lacking.

In truth i don't think that nightfall is any harder overall then prophicies, once the builds start becomming well-established for each area, most people will breeze through this game, just like the others.

garethporlest18 · Nov 13, 2006, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Cougar trying taking off the Keeper quest, that might help you get past that part. Honestly I dont know why people just pick quests knowing that they'll get raped if it says [Master] in a level 28 place.

Mai · Nov 13, 2006, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrial heart

I think the AI update changed the enemy AI going for the heavy targets, not sure when you beat it, but shiro won't stay on a tank anymore.

It can be done, I was tanking him on my derv with a Avatar of Dwayna build while everyone else was killing Lich. The trick is to have everyone stand behind you and when he shadowsteps to a soft target then just have them kite Shiro to you. It's tricky but it works when you get the hang of it. Shiro usually stays on you until he does that shadowstep skill again which results in the rinse and repeat kite to you.

gabrial heart · Nov 13, 2006, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by CougarTheTall

Yeah, I have to agree with the original poster, the latter stages of Nightfall are just stupid hard. Not challenging hard, just ridiculas, stupid and idiotically hard. A group of 8 lvl 20's against 30 lvl 28's is just flat out STUPID. I've lost all intrest in Nightfall, I personally think the campaign is shit. No one wants to join groups anymore because they have their precious hero's and know the game inside and out because they have 24/7 to play this game. The rest of us are just screwed.

I just spent 45 minutes trying to do the first primary quest in the vortex and couldn't even get out of the gate, not to mention the res shrine is right in the middle of the battle so as soon as you are wiped, you get wiped again, and again and again and again. It's just retarded. I understand there is a difference between challenging and impossible, but this shit is not challenging, it's impossible. I don't have the luxury of a guild full of Koreans that can destroy an entire continent of monsters in 10 seconds, I'm usually alone, because like I said, hero's ruined teamwork.

Personally, I'm done with Nightfall. I think it ruined the series and I'm going back to Cantha and Prophocies..........oh wait, there isn't anyone there anymore. GG ANet. Yet another game ruined by the developers. File Anet in the same drawer as EA under idiot developers that don't give a shit about casual players.

Actually, in the later areas it's easy to just pick up some master quests that will rock your world. There is one right after you get to through the vortex and when you walk out the portal your almost immediately in the middle of an onslaught. try abandoning the master level quests, it makes those areas much easier. I think casual players have a much better way to go in nightfall then any of the other campaigns simply due to the hero system, which can be used quite effectively.

If you'd like help before you ditch the game, you're more then welcome to hook up with our guild.

gabrial heart · Nov 13, 2006, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mai

It can be done, I was tanking him on my derv with a Avatar of Dwayna build while everyone else was killing Lich. The trick is to have everyone stand behind you and when he shadowsteps to a soft target then just have them kite Shiro to you. It's tricky but it works when you get the hang of it. Shiro usually stays on you until he does that shadowstep skill again which results in the rinse and repeat kite to you.

Yeah, we did it again last night for guildies and it was rediculously easy. Just aegis alone negates most of shiros damage output and we had him chasing us around the entire map while we capped the shrines. Once we capped the last one, shiro pretty much just fell over.

FexFX · Nov 13, 2006, 04:02 PM // 16:02

This is one of five threads I have been following that made me start this thread:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10075851

Its a discussion about PUGing in general, and ways to improve the GW experience...

This thread talks about how n00bs may be getting frustrated with NF because its too hard without the experience and specific skill sets held by GW veterans. My proposal is that those of us who consider themselves veterans should share our experience, and help the n00bs out! Rather than going out with a bunch of Heroes, and shunning the n00bs while at the same time worrying that n00bs may run away from the game because its too hard...would it kill you to substitute a PUG or two for those Heroes?

In the end it will make NF seem a little less ominous and imposing for the n00b, and who knows you may just end up improving the world by helping a n00b to become a veteran someday!

Rusty Deth · Nov 13, 2006, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrial heart

I think the AI update changed the enemy AI going for the heavy targets, not sure when you beat it, but shiro won't stay on a tank anymore.

Beat him last friday, but we had a messed up way to make sure he was on Koss...

We kept all the squishes way beyond the entrance and had Koss up by the stairs, my buddy was pulling Shiro into our gate of death. Koss was the only one set to attack and me and my friend controlled all the others to use certain skills on Shiro while they were set to avoid contact.

Yeah, Shiro teleported to the squishies alot and tried to get hits in, but with them all scattering he looked confused, and it didn't take long for him to be fixed on who was attacking him. Sometimes it was minions and sometimes it was Koss.

lol it will be a while before we try for the bonus, but that strategy won't work for that.

gestalt · Nov 13, 2006, 05:38 PM // 17:38

I soloed the entire stroyline with a Dervish I started right from the beginning on an account with only about 5 elites previously unlocked with only maybe 10 plat total on all characters.

I did rilohn refuge on the first try. The seige mission with expert's on the 2nd try. Did Gate of Madness on second try. Did Gate of Abbadon on second try. Every thing else was the first try except Jennur horde.

Seriously its not that bad.

Lucifer PVP · Nov 13, 2006, 05:46 PM // 17:46

i thought it was fairly easy did every mission on 1st or 2nd try with hero/hench masters if any thing it should have been harder Gates of Pain is a joke .. Gates of Madness.. i can see a losing at the end ..but people are complaining about clearing out the portals they need someone to hold their hand... ... Your point that it is too hard for new players is understandable and this is why ANET should stop with the standalones and just add expansions from now on. By the time you beat a chapter you should be able to deal with the semi hard quests, missions in my proposed expansions idea.

gestalt · Nov 13, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by CougarTheTall

Yeah, I have to agree with the original poster, the latter stages of Nightfall are just stupid hard. Not challenging hard, just ridiculas, stupid and idiotically hard. A group of 8 lvl 20's against 30 lvl 28's is just flat out STUPID. I've lost all intrest in Nightfall, I personally think the campaign is shit. No one wants to join groups anymore because they have their precious hero's and know the game inside and out because they have 24/7 to play this game. The rest of us are just screwed.

I just spent 45 minutes trying to do the first primary quest in the vortex and couldn't even get out of the gate, not to mention the res shrine is right in the middle of the battle so as soon as you are wiped, you get wiped again, and again and again and again. It's just retarded. I understand there is a difference between challenging and impossible, but this shit is not challenging, it's impossible. I don't have the luxury of a guild full of Koreans that can destroy an entire continent of monsters in 10 seconds, I'm usually alone, because like I said, hero's ruined teamwork.

Personally, I'm done with Nightfall. I think it ruined the series and I'm going back to Cantha and Prophocies..........oh wait, there isn't anyone there anymore. GG ANet. Yet another game ruined by the developers. File Anet in the same drawer as EA under idiot developers that don't give a shit about casual players.

If you are fightign 30 level 28's all at one time you are doing somethign wrong. Either you are letting patrols overlap on you or you are not killing Demon before they finish Call of Torment and summon a clone. Spreading out damage on the demon can double your work load, you gotta finish targets off no matter what. Too much AoE can bad on demons if it causes three+ things to Call of Torment at once. It is important to bring ineough DPS and it is important to focus fire in Realm of torment or you can get overwhelmed.

Tarkin · Nov 13, 2006, 07:01 PM // 19:01

1. Friends (if you have them you kwon why, dont mather if them are bad or good players)> Good players > Heroes = Good pugs > Normal pugs = Henchs > Bad players > a bad player that think he is a good player...

Everyone have bad times with pugs and noobs, if you can play with your friends thats is the best, if you cant... try to learn how play with henchs, henchs are good i make 90% of missions (and i can say 100% of missions can be make with henchs) with them with my 8 classes... all is about >your< build

2. Chapter 1 easy to >>newbees<<, with some normal or hard missions...
Chapter 2 a bit harder to >>newbees<<, with some normal or hard missions...
Chapter 3 a lot more harder to >>newbees<<, with some normal or hard missions...

Sometime ago i as a newbee like everyone i dont kown how use skills, how foe to kill first...now i can say elona is hard to newbees... but not a end of world...

3 For no more newbees chapter 1 is easy > chapter 2 very easy > chapter 3 make me laught...

Now i have all skills, have exp, kown the tricks, how agroo... i can say elona is very easy to non newbees... simply

What i can say is, only time give you exp to enjoy and play the game well, dont blame someone that say it is hard... you dont kown if he/she is a newbee like you sometime ago

...

i forget...

4 about builds
area build > team warmachine build > good build > hench build = pug build > newbee build > noob build...